"rare" GSD breederQuestion:Jeez, this breeder are spetialist on breeding GSD whit huge standar Disqualifications types. :yikes: :( Such as long hair, "rare" colors as liver, white, silver, blue, all red. Few of them has blue eyes. Sizes 29'' and up on males (the akc size limit is 26") http://www.pets4you.com/pages/snowcloud.html and they say: I felt a great privilege to be able to train and show these "special" dogs. They also claim to have a long haired german line stud, but they don't mention anyware that they keep the akc and german lines apart. And the head of that dog dosen't seem to be too mush german line to me. Answer: Ah, yes, yet another "rare" byb. Gag Answer: Anytime you see they accept visa/mastercard.... RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!! Answer: None of those colors are "rare". I see them all the time. Well, except blue. But there certainly isn't a shortage of white & black shepherds around here. Answer: Well solid black is accepted in the standar, but all the others colors there not. In a add they have in dog fancy they say "winners of obidience titles and movie oscars" LOL Anyone have a clue what they ment whit an animal winning a "movie oscar"???? :confused: Also they say this He produces puppies in different colors and is in some of the Snowwhite puppie's Pedigree. I feel blessed that he is in my life. When you are breeding aren't you suposted to want that the puppies to have a similar look to they parents.?? this is bad. Answer: That's a breeder you want to run, not walk, from. Answer: my dog rocky was a silver and white lol but he was mixed with a chow!!! there dogs are cute but i dont like byb's Answer: German Shepherds were bred to work. Personally if they can do the work that is really all that matters. Too many breeders are playing on the rare colours; oversized; this does not make the dog better. If the dog can go to work then it is a good shepherd otherwise it is nothing more then a pet. Answer: I felt a great privilege to be able to train and show these "special" dogs. she's the "special" one jeez Answer: The red dog doesnt even look pure bred to me. could have chow somewhere down the line. Answer: They didn't look that big to me, look where the dogs shoulder is compared to the handler. Gunnar is that tall and he's within the standard. I agree the red one looks like a mix. Not a breeder I'd buy from. Answer: Wow: I am learning new things each and everyday! Why anyone would breed with the lack of standards is beyond me. Why can't people let it alone? Breed for SPACIFIC'S quality not quanity!:yikes: Just like the Shilo Shepherd, nice to look at but way to big and out of standard for me! Correct me if I am wrong! Answer: German Shepherds were bred to work. Personally if they can do the work that is really all that matters. Too many breeders are playing on the rare colours; oversized; this does not make the dog better. If the dog can go to work then it is a good shepherd otherwise it is nothing more then a pet. and what working qualifications does this breeder have??? thought so. Since these "rare" colors have been a fault since Max created the breed and haven't been bred or worked by any reputable kennel or have had their breeding stock pressured, tested and worked to any appreciable level, i'm quite certain the likelyhood of them producing "working" dogs is pretty much close to zero. have you ever read his work?? gives a good idea of what GSD breeding should and shouldn't be, once you read it you won't be able to take bits and pieces and make it seem like he advocated "everything". BUt that is the signature of a BYB and the like. Answer: and what working qualifications does this breeder have??? thought so. Since these "rare" colors have been a fault since Max created the breed and haven't been bred or worked by any reputable kennel or have had their breeding stock pressured, tested and worked to any appreciable level, i'm quite certain the likelyhood of them producing "working" dogs is pretty much close to zero. have you ever read his work?? gives a good idea of what GSD breeding should and shouldn't be, once you read it you won't be able to take bits and pieces and make it seem like he advocated "everything". BUt that is the signature of a BYB and the like. Whatzamatter; Sounds like you know what your talking about!:cool: Answer: and what working qualifications does this breeder have??? thought so. Since these "rare" colors have been a fault since Max created the breed and haven't been bred or worked by any reputable kennel or have had their breeding stock pressured, tested and worked to any appreciable level, i'm quite certain the likelyhood of them producing "working" dogs is pretty much close to zero. have you ever read his work?? gives a good idea of what GSD breeding should and shouldn't be, once you read it you won't be able to take bits and pieces and make it seem like he advocated "everything". BUt that is the signature of a BYB and the like. I agree whit you, and a good and responsible GSD breeder is the one that at least one of the parents of the litter has a SCH Answer: I agree whit you, and a good and responsible GSD breeder is the one that at least one of the parents of the litter has a SCH Exactly::: Anyone can breed to say they are a breeder, but to actually work the dogs and get them titled that's a major achievement! That's responsible, I am truly learning by reading all of your posts. Thank you everyone! Answer: I agree whit you, and a good and responsible GSD breeder is the one that at least one of the parents of the litter has a SCH Wait you are saying a working german shepherd breeder should title their dogs for a sport??? Why?? Sport is just that and not work and does not test workability. It tests trainability...big difference. I am not going to get into this debate but can tell you no police officer or military offical would look at a sports dog here if they can have something trained for work. This is a working breeder http://www.tiekerhook.com/ yes some of his dogs have sports titles and he claims it like it is...a sport. Answer: what did you get that link when I posted it elsewhere??? must've book marked it and thought you could learn a few things, but I doubt it. Koos is one of the best working breeders and trainers in the world. Ask him about using untitled or unproven working stock for breeding especially ones grossly out of the standard. His dogs are all tested pressured and worked. He knows what he's doing, unlike others that hear something and fly with it. What is your experience in "sports" what dogs titled, where and when?? My guess is you've NEVER, EVER, and have absolutely zero experience in it. just like you're alter ego, spouting off about hings you know nothing about. Answer: SCH is not only obidience, they also prove work. Here are two links whit SCH info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzhund http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/activities/schutzhund.html The German Shepherd Dog (GSD) was developed from working herding dogs around 1900 as an all-around working dog. Within a few years it was clear that the dogs were losing their working ability. Schutzhund was developed at this time as a test of working ability for GSDs. Only GSDs that had passed a Schutzhund test or a herding test were allowed to breed and thus have their progeny registered as German Shepherd Dogs. This is true in Germany to this day. It is only by testing the working ability of every generation that the strong working characteristics of the GSD have been maintained. Dogs of any breed, even mixes, can compete in Schutzhund today, but the most common breeds are GSDs, Belgian Malinois, Rottweilers, Doberman Pinschers, Giant Schnauzers, Bouvier des Flandres, Dutch Shepherd Dogs, and the like. Most police departments do not allow their working dogs to breed. This is also true of many other organizations that use working dogs. The breeding stock for these working dogs is Schutzhund dogs. Without Schutzhund, the working ability of GSDs and other working breeds would quickly deteriorate and it would be difficult to find suitable dogs for police work, bomb detection, or search and rescue. People do Schutzhund for fun, but they also know that they are giving back to society by developing the next generation of working dogs. Answer: Hey Sapph, its just an excuse that a certain person or persons likes to use when they don't have the knowledge or experience and they just like to say what fits their bill so they can breed and try to sell anything they want. That's why I'd love to know how many dogs they titled and when. Its easy for me to see a dog trained in SchH to know if the issues i'm seeing are training issues or temperment or drive issues (generally). These people seem to forget that although SchH is mainly a sport, it's still very valuable. When you drive a dog, do an attack out of the blind, long bites, escorts back to the judge, you can read the dog, is he biting out of defense, prey, is he avoiding slightly on the escorts, is the dog controllable?? all these things and much more can be judged. A good dog is a good dog, no matter how it was trained, BUT schH is the test that was developed long ago, to test and pressure breeding stock against a standard. It is why the GSD has the reputation it has now. Certain people like to use "schH is only a sport" that's why we don't train for it as an EXCUSE. BYB"s are full of excuses, and these people have lots of 'em. Some of us know that some dogs can do well at bite work, some only at OB, some only at tracking, some do really well in bitework, and OB, but have no drive to hunt or track, or can bite all day long, but can't be controlled. SchH can easily be used to pressure and test the dogs in all these phases, which is how we got the working GSD in the first place, yet these fly by nighters think they know better:yikes: , (where's the emoticon with the hammer bashing someone's head, that would fit better) You don't have to win these "sports" or place very high, but if you're training a working dog, it shouldn't take much to be able to show your dog at one of these "sports" and get a title, it shouldn't take much at all. NObody is going to care what score you got, in fact the last one I was at, most of the dogs I liked best, scored the lower. Mostly training issues I saw, not drive or temperment issues. and before I'd breed to any dog titled or not, i would test the dog myself on a neutral field, or with a helper that I bring along, no matter how many titles or times the dog has been shown, but that's niether here nor there. Real breeders don't make excuses, they just do it. I just worked a 10 year old police dog titled all the way to Sch III. Answer: Okay: What you are saying seems to be wise and educated whatzamatter! There should be more individuals out there with your knowledge.:cool: Answer: Question for you Whatzamatter? I went to a SCH show in Toronto about 15 years ago, the one guy had just trialed his German Import Sch 3 male. The dog failed the courage test! The aggitator ran the dog off the field. Is that normal? Answer: Now that's totally off the wall! Such individuals need to be shot! Why. can't they leave the breed alone! I say down with the puppy mills, byb and and anyone associated too them! Go figure chickenlittle approves! Sick as all get out! Answer: Question for you Whatzamatter? I went to a SCH show in Toronto about 15 years ago, the one guy had just trialed his German Import Sch 3 male. The dog failed the courage test! The aggitator ran the dog off the field. Is that normal? Very normal and this is exactly why it is a sport. We can argue until the end of time about this. I never ever stated that working dogs should not be worked, tested and proven either. That is you putting words in my mouth to try and prove a faulty point. Yes you posted that link over on Kijji Canadian Pet Forums; for Heather. She was well aware of the link as I had sent it to her long ago. Yes I use to be a member there too; I was Sam_Johnston. I left because of the lack of knowledge on that particular forum. Heather and I have already contacted two of the best working kennels in the world and deposits are in place for puppies {breeding stock} from both. You see true working breeders take the time to talk with potential buyers and I have yet to hear of one not being impressed with Heather's ideas and plans. Yet on this forum she is trashed and thrown out. WHY? Why is so evil to you here on a PET forum? Yet actual working breeders are very happy with her. Peter Cadman at Crosshill Kennels had no problems selling her a puppy for her breeding program. NONE and still has no problem. Maybe if you were to understand this you would understand the frustration. We have members who own a gsd who wish to bash her because she might just be a little better then you or your dog. Well get over it because every dog is special in their own way. A lot is also a personal grudge that started with one member and her husbands K9 dog and everyone else jumped on the band wagon. Fine hate her; no skin of my back or hers. Fine bash her but you look like fools for doing so! Ask the real breeders who do not have time to be on these pet forums; they are out working their dogs. I can tell you wait about two months and I bet that Kijji forum never or rarely sees Heather. She will be very busy with her first ever litter of working gsd. I think they will be excellent pups but you know what? Until we see what they are doing in two years time; it is a crap shoot. It is with every breeder and those who state differently are full of crap themselves. These are my words of wisdom. I took the time to be involved with Heather and I was the one who said hey wait a minute lets put that stud to work. Yes when everyone on every forum said just give him to me; now if he is such garbage why did you all ask for him back then? Maybe you saw something you really liked then and it has only gotten better. Just to back up the facts here: How often do I post? Right not very! I am busy working dogs and training. That is my living! Answer: This tread whasen't about that Heather person, I don't even know who she is. Don't go off topic whit that. The tread was about ovesized, white, blue, all red and long haired GSD to be out of standar. If you belive trials like SCH, french ring and ZTP are just "sports" and not test for the abilities and temparemt of the dogs then whe may never know your idea of what a working dog is. Answer: Very normal and this is exactly why it is a sport. We can argue until the end of time about this. I never ever stated that working dogs should not be worked, tested and proven either. That is you putting words in my mouth to try and prove a faulty point. Yes you posted that link over on Kijji Canadian Pet Forums; for Heather. She was well aware of the link as I had sent it to her long ago. Yes I use to be a member there too; I was Sam_Johnston. I left because of the lack of knowledge on that particular forum. Heather and I have already contacted two of the best working kennels in the world and deposits are in place for puppies {breeding stock} from both. You see true working breeders take the time to talk with potential buyers and I have yet to hear of one not being impressed with Heather's ideas and plans. Yet on this forum she is trashed and thrown out. WHY? Why is so evil to you here on a PET forum? Yet actual working breeders are very happy with her. Peter Cadman at Crosshill Kennels had no problems selling her a puppy for her breeding program. NONE and still has no problem. Maybe if you were to understand this you would understand the frustration. We have members who own a gsd who wish to bash her because she might just be a little better then you or your dog. Well get over it because every dog is special in their own way. A lot is also a personal grudge that started with one member and her husbands K9 dog and everyone else jumped on the band wagon. Fine hate her; no skin of my back or hers. Fine bash her but you look like fools for doing so! Ask the real breeders who do not have time to be on these pet forums; they are out working their dogs. I can tell you wait about two months and I bet that Kijji forum never or rarely sees Heather. She will be very busy with her first ever litter of working gsd. I think they will be excellent pups but you know what? Until we see what they are doing in two years time; it is a crap shoot. It is with every breeder and those who state differently are full of crap themselves. These are my words of wisdom. I took the time to be involved with Heather and I was the one who said hey wait a minute lets put that stud to work. Yes when everyone on every forum said just give him to me; now if he is such garbage why did you all ask for him back then? Maybe you saw something you really liked then and it has only gotten better. Just to back up the facts here: How often do I post? Right not very! I am busy working dogs and training. That is my living! Actually, the question was directed to Whatzamatter, someone I believe has a lot of experiance in the area. I am here to learn, and that I will do. These people have been here for me, through thick and thin. With my Springer Spaniel Sasha, and the three dogs I rescued which two have been placed in real great homes. I do not own a German Shepherd at this time but will consider it in the future. I feel the attitude issues are yours and yours alone. So please if you need some one to complain to and about do it on your own time! Answer: Very normal and this is exactly why it is a sport. We can argue until the end of time about this. I never ever stated that working dogs should not be worked, tested and proven either. That is you putting words in my mouth to try and prove a faulty point. Yes you posted that link over on Kijji Canadian Pet Forums; for Heather. She was well aware of the link as I had sent it to her long ago. Yes I use to be a member there too; I was Sam_Johnston. I left because of the lack of knowledge on that particular forum. Heather and I have already contacted two of the best working kennels in the world and deposits are in place for puppies {breeding stock} from both. You see true working breeders take the time to talk with potential buyers and I have yet to hear of one not being impressed with Heather's ideas and plans. Yet on this forum she is trashed and thrown out. WHY? Why is so evil to you here on a PET forum? Yet actual working breeders are very happy with her. Peter Cadman at Crosshill Kennels had no problems selling her a puppy for her breeding program. NONE and still has no problem. Maybe if you were to understand this you would understand the frustration. We have members who own a gsd who wish to bash her because she might just be a little better then you or your dog. Well get over it because every dog is special in their own way. A lot is also a personal grudge that started with one member and her husbands K9 dog and everyone else jumped on the band wagon. Fine hate her; no skin of my back or hers. Fine bash her but you look like fools for doing so! Ask the real breeders who do not have time to be on these pet forums; they are out working their dogs. I can tell you wait about two months and I bet that Kijji forum never or rarely sees Heather. She will be very busy with her first ever litter of working gsd. I think they will be excellent pups but you know what? Until we see what they are doing in two years time; it is a crap shoot. It is with every breeder and those who state differently are full of crap themselves. These are my words of wisdom. I took the time to be involved with Heather and I was the one who said hey wait a minute lets put that stud to work. Yes when everyone on every forum said just give him to me; now if he is such garbage why did you all ask for him back then? Maybe you saw something you really liked then and it has only gotten better. Just to back up the facts here: How often do I post? Right not very! I am busy working dogs and training. That is my living! Comments are interesting! Sounds as though Sam is once again speaking for his counter part Heather; I will state these areas to you and let it go from here! 1) Why did the Spca, and Brockville Township close Heather down if she is doing such an wonderful job??? 2) If the two of you are such pro's why does it worry you so much what others have to say about you? You should not even give a dam! I know I wouldn't care less. But then again that's what happens when your so insecure and know what other's are saying is to be found truthful!!! Answer: I actually have a blue GSD...she's a rescue though, and way out of conformation, she's huge for a female... Answer: Comments are interesting! Sounds as though Sam is once again speaking for his counter part Heather; I will state these areas to you and let it go from here! 1) Why did the Spca, and Brockville Township close Heather down if she is doing such an wonderful job??? 2) If the two of you are such pro's why does it worry you so much what others have to say about you? You should not even give a dam! I know I wouldn't care less. But then again that's what happens when your so insecure and know what other's are saying is to be found truthful!!! Hello Debbie Meloche again! The SPCA has never been to Heather's. Why would the Brockville Township give a rats behind about Heather; when she lives in Prescott? Who closed her down? I was there all day today and she has thirteen dogs; a kennel license posted and a business license. Where did your faulty information come from? Let me guess Kim Hatch and Dave Vincent? Honestly I do not care at all what anyone says as I know what is going on. I train and work the dogs not you! The only reason anyone says anything bad here is because they know who has the best and the thought of competition scares you. Well there is no competition because she is light years ahead. Debbie please stop making up email addresses and begging for a breeding to Yukon. We do not deal with scammers! Answer: Do you people just sit around and wait for an opportunity to bring Heather up? Sheesh. Answer: It seems like it. Answer: Do you people just sit around and wait for an opportunity to bring Heather up? Sheesh. It makes it really hard to be a member here due to the taboo topic of Heather. The problem is that I am her mentor and her trainer! So basically the dogs in her life are the dogs in my life. So this is a dog forum and I am not allowed to discuss the dogs because someone here is jealous and many others have no clue but they jump on the band wagon. So what do I do when she has a litter? Am I allowed to post pictures? Am I allowed to say anything? Probably not so guess this likely is not a good forum for me to be on. I was simply trying to share knowledge not bashing mindless attacks that some here seem to think is appropriate. Then we have Miss Meloche who comes here everyday with another user name just like on Kijji just to attack Heather. Then she sends email after email begging to stud to Yukon but then is two faced on the forums. Typical scammer! You all hate Heather and you hate her dogs and that is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think she will put out the best working german shepherds possible; however for two years it will be just a thought. In two years the dogs will prove themselves to be good or not good. It is easy for each one to form and opinion and to hate hate hate; but with the lack of knowledge used to forum that hatred it is really sad! It is clear that people here do not want to learn; they just want to follow the old members who can feed them anything and it will be believed. On my ending post: Schutzhund in North American is nothing more then a glorified sport Schutzhund in Europe is taken much more seriously and although it is a sport; it is also valuable in the working world! True working breeders do just that; work their dogs. Tracking Personal Protectional Have a great day! Answer: chickenlittle, the reason people asked her to rehome Yukon at the beginning of her rounds on the various forums was because she was going to have him put down. He was out of control and she didn't know how to handle him. According to the story, (which kept changing from day today) he'd snapped at one of her kids. He was peeing on her. He wasn't training well. Rather than 1: see her kids get hurt, and 2: have a dog put down only because the owner couldn't handle him, people suggested she rehome. Now that she has the best trainer in the world helping her, I'm sure that all is well. Aside from all the other BS that went on, like telling everyone he was altered then finding out he wasn't, her ever changing stories and back pedalling caused her to lose all credibility with anyone who had considered her a reliable and well meaning forum member. Answer: anyway, NO it is not the NORM for dog's to be ran off the field. Some people bend the rules and use soft helpers etc, to get their dogs "titled", but that is the people cheating that is the problem, not the test. As for these other comments, I'll believe it when I see it. You should have started with tested and proven breeding stock in the beginning, but like most other stories in this, i'm sure it will change. Being on or off a form does not make one a good trainer, handler, breeder etc. I and others have time to be on this pet forum and other boards as well and yet I have time to train, trial, certify, my dogs and others. Anyway, you should probably get back to mentoring, save us all from your board presence. As for SchH being only good in Europe and not in the USA??? OK, most dogs that get run off the field, are imports, rushed thru training and sold overseas, by European breeders and trainers. In case you missed it, the USA won the WUSV last year, beating a tough teams from all over the world. Last years trial was in Denmark, with tough helpers pressuring the dogs and testing them. Winning the whole thing isn't too bad for a country that just has a glorified sport. When used correctly, you tell a lot thru a SchH test. As i've said before, just because it is a sport, doesn't mean that YOU can't use it to really pressure and test dogs to find out what would be best bred to what. Go to a trial, score low if you want, but get the title and prove you're at least doing what you say you are. Talk is cheap. I'll just assume at your lack of avoiding the question time and time again, that you and your alter ego have zero experience with any sport at any level. as for this "great" working dog breeder that you work with??? can I ask why almost all of his dogs have ZERO working certs or titles and come from mostly untitled, unproven showline GSD's??? OK, go pee on someone else's head and tell them it's raining OK. Later Answer: And another thing, we don't say SCH is a sport because me or other members say so, is beacuase the SV (GSD club in germany) says so, in fact in germany is a must when a person is breeding one of parents has to have a least a level 1 SCH I'm not completly shure what's goin whit this Heather person and her minoins, but it seems when someone strart a threat whit GSD safely beacuase they are chances someones start talking about it, even if the thread at the start haven't anytihing to do whit her. Can a mod lock this please? This fights are anoying. Answer: :cool: Well put whatzamatter!!!! Chickenlittle, I am pretty sure that Debbie Meloche wishes no ill on you or Heather, and can secure that there was never a intention to breed any of her dogs to Yukon, now and or at anytime. There's to many exceptional dogs out there between Amherstburg and Ottawa.... No one would even consider the trip or spend the money to breed to Yukon. To many lies attached there!!!!! ! As far as the SPCA and Brockville is concern, it's written in the books. Anyone can research that area when necessary.'''''' I believe that there are a few SCH trials coming up, why not get that dog and your other dogs tested. I pretty sure everyone will get a laugh, I know we will. Latter Answer: :cool: Well put whatzamatter!!!! Chickenlittle, I am pretty sure that Debbie Meloche wishes no ill on you or Heather, and can secure that there was never a intention to breed any of her dogs to Yukon, now and or at anytime. There's to many exceptional dogs out there between Amherstburg and Ottawa.... No one would even consider the trip or spend the money to breed to Yukon. To many lies attached there!!!!! ! As far as the SPCA and Brockville is concern, it's written in the books. Anyone can research that area when necessary.'''''' I believe that there are a few SCH trials coming up, why not get that dog and your other dogs tested. I pretty sure everyone will get a laugh, I know we will. Latter Please produce proof that Brockville township or SPCA cares what someone is Prescott township is doing???? Please do your research before slandering someone! Why would any reputable working breeder go play in the sports field? Debbie you are so full of crap! How would you know what ill will there is or was? Unless you are her! Stop wasting such valuable time! Now couple of facts to think about that might help you figure out Debbie Meloche's lies here: #1}Heather is 100% rescuing and still very active in rescuing. 11 rescues on the property as we speak. #2} By Law Officer of Prescott Ontario was by Heather's and did tell her two dogs only. He failed to check with his boss as business licenses and non profit had been applied for and approved. They have now been issued and other then providing a small hassle of having to remove dogs to a friends Mine} kennel for a few days things are all still up and running. #3} dogs muzzled...what dogs? The dogs do not get crated so not even sure where that came from. There are 6X6 kennels each with out door runs attached for all kennel dogs. House dogs live in the house. #4}Breeding program shut down....Ebony and Yukon tied today actually for the breeding of the very first working litter. #5} Why were puppy ads removed? None left to sell. Why were deposit ads removed? Heather has four and will not accept anymore at my advice until puppies are on the ground. Why are stud ads removed? Debbie Meloche won't stop responding and she is not getting a piece of this quality stud. Not with her bitchs; one who has seizures but she breeds her anyway. Now again SPCA news: Never been on the property but they are always welcome. The one you would likely call for Heather's area is the Leeds and Grenville Branch in Brockville Ontario! Google search and their contact information will come up. OPP: The Garry cop you called Debbie was not the one who helps Heather and myself with training. Nice try but get your names straight. You called Mr Slutyman; it is Garry Sleethman! Garry is not a master trainer and no one claimed that either. The township Heather lives in is The Town Of Prescott, south grenville! Not Brockville, not North Agusta, not Elizabeth town. If you wish to see her breeding website http://lilmegshepherds.piczo.com She still has Yukon, Ebony! Hope is a co own! Ava is for sale as her owner is not happy with her. There will be a cash payout to Heather as she co owned for breeding rights only. This is between Lori and Heather not me. You may email Lori at lcorey69@sympatico.ca for information on the co owns! Glory the mutt mix purchased from Debbie Meloche was given away on the condition the basket case was spayed. She has been! That was the biggest scam ever and Heather believed every word that scam artist told her. If anyone wishes to contact me for information or to discuss further babym@sympatico.ca I am slow to respond due to being busy training and mentoring. You can contact Heather through her website. Be careful of what is read on this website http://shepherdscountryhavenandrescue.com They as well breed their rescues; the father of the availabe litter is a rescue. Their new stud Ruben is a rescue! I bid you a good day with one final thought....BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU BELIEVE; VERY LITTLE ON THE INTERNET AND ON ANY FORUM IS TRUE! Answer: Why would any reputable working breeder go play in the sports field? Actually, there are many reputable working breeders "playing" in Schutzhund. As it was pointed out earlier, though Schutzhund is considered a sport by many, it is still a good test of courage, nerves and overall temperament. The people who like to criticize are usually the ones sitting on the sidelines, not the people actually putting in the work and proving it on the field. ;) Answer: Why would any reputable working breeder go play in the sports field? The same reason they have for the past 100 years, to prove their breeding stock against a standard. To weed out the ones that are serious and those that are pretenders. To show off what they've done, to have a friendly competition between friends and peers. There's thousands of reasons to be on the field at least once in a dog's career before breeding. And don't you find it odd that almost every single reputable breeder of working dogs does just that??? Tests and shows their dogs?? or at least started that way for many years?? The GSD has the reputation built on that, and you know better to change the rules?? OK Let me ask you this, what reason do you have NOT to present a dog on a field??? Answer: Please produce proof that Brockville township or SPCA cares what someone is Prescott township is doing???? Please do your research before slandering someone! Why would any reputable working breeder go play in the sports field? Debbie you are so full of crap! How would you know what ill will there is or was? Unless you are her! Stop wasting such valuable time! I am more than positive that I am not your friend! I can secure that! I know for sure that your friend has much better things to do than waste her time with you, your dogs or DRAMA!!! Her dogs are doing wonder's with the Police Services that she donated them too. The differance between her and you, she knows what she is doing, with that the job gets done! The subject is this:: Heather Sam, Yuckaduck you go do your thing, as you seem to think you know it all! No one wants anything to do with you or will bother you if you don't bother them. No one gives a dam!!!!! If they do its for the animals and not you and your story telling!!!!! Answer: I bid you a good day with one final thought....BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU BELIEVE; VERY LITTLE ON THE INTERNET AND ON ANY FORUM IS TRUE! The only thing you've said that makes any sense. Good job. Answer: This keeps popping up in the least expected places! :popcorn: Answer: Yuckaduck; chickenlittle, Heather Sam who ever you are have a nice day trip. Good luck breeding and doing your thing! Answer: :cool: Well put whatzamatter!!!! Debbie Meloche can secure that there was never a intention to breed any of her dogs to Yukon, now and or at anytime. Secure yourselves where your heart and soul is concerned. Sound familiar? You all check for yourselves on Debbie Meloche's site http://k9dogs.9k.com Is there any doubt who Meco is? There is only one reason for Debbie to continue this and it is pure jealousy. Your scamming lost you a lot didn't it? You had big plans for someone else's dogs. DANL: I can admit lying about Yukon being neutered was dead wrong of Heather or her hubby. As far as attacking her children because she could not handle him...that is 100% true. But rather then help her you all jumped at taking him for your own. You should have found a trainer who could help her! When I first met Heather the first thing she said to me was if this does not work and you cannot help me; we will be putting Yukon to sleep! So there was no lying in that. Just a bunch of breeders who saw Yukon for the working quality he was and jumped thinking they could scoop him up from someone who lacked knowledge to know how to deal with him. Yukon had a rough start in life; the first trainer decided to beat the holy heck out of him; leaving him with an injury that made appropriate training impossible. Which made him harder to handle because he lacked training when he was older. He is still a big handful and unless he has a job to do {like any good working dog} he can be a brute. Not aggressive but a brute. I can honestly say: my dad trained for the RCMP; I followed in his footsteps and quickly branched out of the RCMP and out of actual police agencies. I still train for a few but very small scale now. In my many many many years of dogs; I have never seen a dog as driven and as intense as Yukon! Opinions have been formed, mistakes have been made; but everything is on track now. I will not come again but the website links have been provided for anyone interested. Those not interested do not have to look! Answer: again, bring up names of all crazy people, but avoid answering any real questions. the MO is the same everywhere. I have a feeling you'll come back, you always do, but in the meantime go sell crazy somewhere else. Later Answer: Sound familiar? You all check for yourselves on Debbie Meloche's site http://k9dogs.9k.com Is there any doubt who Meco is? There is only one reason for Debbie to continue this and it is pure jealousy. Your scamming lost you a lot didn't it? You had big plans for someone else's dogs. DANL: I can admit lying about Yukon being neutered was dead wrong of Heather or her hubby. As far as attacking her children because she could not handle him...that is 100% true. But rather then help her you all jumped at taking him for your own. You should have found a trainer who could help her! When I first met Heather the first thing she said to me was if this does not work and you cannot help me; we will be putting Yukon to sleep! So there was no lying in that. Just a bunch of breeders who saw Yukon for the working quality he was and jumped thinking they could scoop him up from someone who lacked knowledge to know how to deal with him. Yukon had a rough start in life; the first trainer decided to beat the holy heck out of him; leaving him with an injury that made appropriate training impossible. Which made him harder to handle because he lacked training when he was older. He is still a big handful and unless he has a job to do {like any good working dog} he can be a brute. Not aggressive but a brute. I can honestly say: my dad trained for the RCMP; I followed in his footsteps and quickly branched out of the RCMP and out of actual police agencies. I still train for a few but very small scale now. In my many many many years of dogs; I have never seen a dog as driven and as intense as Yukon! Opinions have been formed, mistakes have been made; but everything is on track now. I will not come again but the website links have been provided for anyone interested. Those not interested do not have to look! You say what you wish or think! Even if I were your friend, you would be the last person or kennel to be jeolous of! As far as the k9dogs.9k.com website. It looks quite impressive to me! Chickenlittle what are your wages like? Can you hire two Master trainers and two master groomers???? Probably not! You have to breed a German shepherd of poor over all status, one that has been bred each and every season! Why? You need to get your Yukon proven! Please we would love to see this dog actually work. Sanction him out to one of the Sch trials. If you wish to secure everyone's mind at that yours ( PROVE YOURSELF AND YOUR DOG) Answer: Another thing Yuckaduck, Chickenlittle Sam, Heather. I can secure your mind that your friend did not get there by breeding crap, and or scamming anyone!!!! I truly believe the issues are yours and deep rooted! Just get your Yukon and Ebony trained, bring them too a SCH Sanction match and lets leave it in the judges hands. See ya there! Thats if your up too it! Or have the back bone to try it!!!!!!:yikes: Answer: Wait this is fishy if that yukon dog supposted to be from german lines how he can mix whit AKC females. Isen't forbiddend to register FCI german lines to an AKC pedigree and vice-versa? :confused: less a mix of the two lines?? Answer: DANL: I can admit lying about Yukon being neutered was dead wrong of Heather or her hubby. As far as attacking her children because she could not handle him...that is 100% true. But rather then help her you all jumped at taking him for your own. You should have found a trainer who could help her! When I first met Heather the first thing she said to me was if this does not work and you cannot help me; we will be putting Yukon to sleep! So there was no lying in that. Just a bunch of breeders who saw Yukon for the working quality he was and jumped thinking they could scoop him up from someone who lacked knowledge to know how to deal with him. ! Actually, there were no breeders who were after Yukon. No one wanted Yukon. All anyone wanted was to see him rehomed rather than put down. 99% of the posters who replied to her thread about having him put down were simple owners like me, people who love GSD's and didn't want to see anything happen to Yukon. We all heard his story about how he was abused too, but after hearing so many changing stories for so long, many people dismissed that as probably not true either. Regarding breeders wanting him, what breeder would want a dog who's pedigree they could not see? How would anyone know that he came from working lines if that wasn't shared? How would anyone know what his working background was? For all anyone knew he was a product of a BYB who bred oversized dogs. Not many breeders would want a dog like that, at least not ones who are trying to preserve and improve a breed that has gone through a lot of bad times. Heather was asked many times to share Yukon's pedigree so people could see what lines he came from. She never did. Answer: Very normal and this is exactly why it is a sport. We can argue until the end of time about this. I never ever stated that working dogs should not be worked, tested and proven either. That is you putting words in my mouth to try and prove a faulty point. Yes you posted that link over on Kijji Canadian Pet Forums; for Heather. She was well aware of the link as I had sent it to her long ago. Yes I use to be a member there too; I was Sam_Johnston. I left because of the lack of knowledge on that particular forum. Heather and I have already contacted two of the best working kennels in the world and deposits are in place for puppies {breeding stock} from both. You see true working breeders take the time to talk with potential buyers and I have yet to hear of one not being impressed with Heather's ideas and plans. Yet on this forum she is trashed and thrown out. WHY? Why is so evil to you here on a PET forum? Yet actual working breeders are very happy with her. Peter Cadman at Crosshill Kennels had no problems selling her a puppy for her breeding program. NONE and still has no problem. Maybe if you were to understand this you would understand the frustration. We have members who own a gsd who wish to bash her because she might just be a little better then you or your dog. Well get over it because every dog is special in their own way. A lot is also a personal grudge that started with one member and her husbands K9 dog and everyone else jumped on the band wagon. Fine hate her; no skin of my back or hers. Fine bash her but you look like fools for doing so! Ask the real breeders who do not have time to be on these pet forums; they are out working their dogs. I can tell you wait about two months and I bet that Kijji forum never or rarely sees Heather. She will be very busy with her first ever litter of working gsd. I think they will be excellent pups but you know what? Until we see what they are doing in two years time; it is a crap shoot. It is with every breeder and those who state differently are full of crap themselves. These are my words of wisdom. I took the time to be involved with Heather and I was the one who said hey wait a minute lets put that stud to work. Yes when everyone on every forum said just give him to me; now if he is such garbage why did you all ask for him back then? Maybe you saw something you really liked then and it has only gotten better. Just to back up the facts here: How often do I post? Right not very! I am busy working dogs and training. That is my living! #1 --- She is a habitual liar. Most people do not like to waste their time with untruths. Believe me, nobody is jealous of any of her dogs nor her, for the most part we feel sorry for them. #2 ---Yuck might try to have you and others believe that the controversy that has been ongoing on this forum was started by me. NOT TRUE... many members saw thru her without any help from me.....Oh what a tangled web we weave, when at first we practice to deceive. And I will say again, there was never any talk about breeding Yukon to any of my dogs! If we ever decide to breed, it will be to a working police k-9 and NOT over the internet. This is just another "story" from the mind of a habitual liar! As for her dog being better than mine or whomever you are talking about.... sounds like a kid on the playground, not an adult. :D I don't believe for a minute that any of her dogs are trained for anything other than having babies. She has posted many pictures of Yukon...none of them even resemble working... One would think she would want to back up her working claims with a few pictures or a video... Since that is what she is using to sell her animals. I do have pictures Yuck sent to me, of her supposed kennels, and several k9 dogs she bought...and they were clearly not hers. Did she really expect me to believe that? Lol (This was along time ago, I still have the pictures). She also asked me not to post them on chaz... LOL....Wonder Why? Answer: Wait this is fishy if that yukon dog supposted to be from german lines how he can mix whit AKC females. Isen't forbiddend to register FCI german lines to an AKC pedigree and vice-versa? :confused: less a mix of the two lines?? FORBIDDEN::: YES! THE BEST THING ABOUT IT IS THE DAME'S EBONY PEDIGREE SHOW'S WHITE CROSSED WITH BLACK! GO TO HER WEBSITE AND VIEW IT FOR YOURSELF. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A GERMAN JUDGE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND EAT HER FOR SUPPER! SHE THINKS WE'RE TOUGH ON HER? Yup; Heather Yuckaduck, dogzone, Sam and the list goes on and on. Everyone just has time to be jeolous of you. All of the spectacular trainers and breeder's are just going to drop everything they do and how they breed to have one of your mixed bred German Shepherds. Yup we all would love to see your dogs out on the field!!! No one has to attack you!!! You do well enough for yourself! You are your own worst enemy! Dumb ass Answer: Not that I really give a da*n.. Since I haven't been here from the beginning, and none of these threads make much sense.. But Brokville and Prescott would be under the Leeds and Grenville SPCA, and bylaw enforcement is shared.. So stressing Prescott isn't Brockville really doesn't matter much. Answer: I think there are a huge number of people here who couldn't care less about Heather or Sam or Deb or yuck or chickenlittle or whoever. All the big talk (chickenlittle) only makes you look like an idiot .. believe it or not. The reality in the breeding world is that for a breeding to be respectable, they need a means to assess and prove their dogs. To say that a sport, designed to work a dog in three distinctive ways in order to assess and prove their abilities, is worthless because it's a SPORT and not actual work is just ludicrous. If breeding were limited only to GSD's who were actual working dogs (meaning they were working on a daily basis in the capacity of a police dog or other steady-working dog) there would be an extremely small gene pool. There's just not enough need or ability to maintain all breeding shepherds as actual working dogs. Schutzhund, properly done, is an excellent means of testing and proving the worthiness of a dog. Added to that are breed surveys, herding titles, endurance titles, etc. These are ALL designed to assess the physical/working abilities of dogs that don't have the opportunity to actually be working dogs. To me, a person who throws a fit and tries to say that these methods of testing are worthless is a person who is just plain unable or unwilling to put the time in to train a dog to the levels necessary for proper testing. Nothing that you have said has made me think (or probably anyone here think) that the dogs you are training are actually working dogs. Saying that your dogs are working dogs doesn't mean that they are. Big words and empty actions prove nothing. Many of us are training our dogs for various activities and still find time to occasionally post in a forum or two. No one spends 24/7 training. It's not physically possible. Melanie and the gang in Alaska Answer: *sigh*..... Sam... Sam... Sam...... What on earth are you trying to accomplish here? It's almost seeming a little pathological the way you and the rest of Yuck's minions/personalities show up here to defend her dubious "honour", you know that? You dropped enough hints, I went over to kijiji because, well, I was bored. Have you guys got some kind of pathetic need for conflict? It's obvious to anybody from Chaz that she's spinning tales there, seems to have a few on the line too. But thanks for the laugh. If nothing else I love a good story. I know hers was supposed to be piece of dramatic fiction but really, it's quite the comedy! Blows my mind. Apparently there was no farm, no barn, no kennel. Before her move she lived in an apartment? Good grief, she even posted pictures of her newly rebuilt kennels here! And if no acreage, where was the barn that burnt down? The whole Yukon's neutered/not neutered, well, that was weird but I think it was weirder that she pegged the whole lie on her husband. I mean, she posted enough about it supporting that lie no matter who started it. And Sam, you've supposedly known her for quite a while. Well enough to know when you've visited that you were standing in an apartment looking at an intact dog and not in the middle of 200 acres. Any good storyteller will tell you that, if your basic premise isn't plausible, the rest of your novel will tank, if the reader even bothers to continue. So, you tell us NOW that this is all the truth and that you wouldn't lie. Uh yup. Yukon's an exceptional working dog (convienient, that title that seems to have been pulled out of a hat or something) because you say so and you know. You'd also be the same one who went to bat arguing that Glory (or was it the other Glory, or one of the Hopes? You guys should quit it with the recycled names) was such a perfect addition to her breeding program. Did she really purchase her for $20 and expect wonderful things? Ever heard of the old adage, you get what you pay for? Can you understand why we may have a few issues with your credibility? You know that commercial for the cel phone where the guy's wandering around saying "Can you hear me now?"? I picture you and her little group of characters wandering from site to site saying, "Believe me now?" Answer: ]I think there are a huge number of people here who couldn't care less about Heather or Sam or Deb or yuck or chickenlittle or whoever.[/B] All the big talk (chickenlittle) only makes you look like an idiot .. believe it or not. Just wanted to emphasize that...coughcough. Answer: Well put all of you!!!! Heather, Yuckduck, Sam, Deb who ever!!! I guess the buck stops here! Rather than talking the talk walk the walk. Train train train, compete compete compete title title title. Not until these areas are complete can the words speak truth. Not until!!!! Answer: BYB maybe - but if there wasn't a market for it, they wouldn't exist. Sooooo - who do you combat 1st, breeders? Or the people you work with, pass on the street, live next to, probably a huge majority on this forum... I have seen so many "if I knew then what I know now...." lines here... Answer: BYB maybe - but if there wasn't a market for it, they wouldn't exist. Sooooo - who do you combat 1st, breeders? Or the people you work with, pass on the street, live next to, probably a huge majority on this forum... I have seen so many "if I knew then what I know now...." lines here... Yes you have a point! A big point! All I am going to say is this, if you are a back yard breeder than be one! Don't exagerate things that do not exsist or have happened! Do not sell your dogs for prices that are out ragious or not worthy of the dogs. The dogs are not and will not be recognised as prize winners if they are not bred to be! If that so called back yard breeder, jumps on forum after forum, stating stuff that she can not back up. Then she shall be attacked and expect to fall. Anyone can say I am what I am! But in the long run back at the ranch can't back up what they said or thought they said! I am a firm believer to give each and everyone a chance or two! But when they go around making up stories! Stories that are sorted and found to be a lie, then hey yea bit your self in the tail. No one did it too you, you did it for yourself. One major rule: To be respected is to give respect. That works in the real world, the internet world and you will find it in the DOG WORLD! Act like a fool get treated like one! So again if Dogzone, Heather, Chickenlittle, Sam and or anyone like them want acceptance, then treat other's they way you want them to treat you! All that comes with the willingness to listen, and learn! Answer: Debbie: It is beyond clear that you have your own personal agenda here. You have depserately tried to recover from being found out as a scam artist and the person who found out was the once scammed Heather. You blab on and on trying so hard. No one and I do mean no one cares what you have to say! I enjoy reading the posts here though as it is much more entertaining then watching children bicker so please do not let me stop you all. I do not need the television for the soaps; I have chazhound to read! Debbie get a job and stop scamming people! See yea at the next SCH trial! Max Von Rheiland Platz Direct decendant of Miss Fritz and Jeff; Full nefew to Detriot Police K-9 explosive dog Miss Joy and the list goes on and on! SCH Trials coming up see ya on the field!!! Taken of http://k9dogs.9k.com Studs Available Page Still think you are not Debbie Meloche! Your german shepherds are APR registered just like Heather's but Heather has either CKC or AKC papers as well. You are the one that encouraged Heather to go with the APR; why I do not know! Answer: No I am not back posting! I just could not resist as you all make me laugh so darn hard!:lol-sign: Thank you Been a real busy day and is great to unwind! Answer: Meco and ChickenLittle - you seem to be wrapped up in your own personal war here - why not take it to some other medium? Answer: I agree, Deb (meco, tinnies ???) and Sam (heather, chicken little, ???) just leave. Nobody here is impressed or fooled by you guys, so just stop. Answer: Yes, I agree. It's ridiculous. Why don't you bicker via email. Answer: I'm amazed this thread lasted this long, usually this debate gets locked down in a matter of hours. Answer: Hee Hee: Okay Heather Sam Chickenlittle Yuck a Duck think what you wish! You seem to think you have the cat in the bag, but the bag hit you hard! As far as being Debbie, Sorry to burst your bubble! But Nope! Should it matter or at that should anyone care? Not really! Anyhow at least Debbie knows where she stands and what she has done in the past and where she is going in the future! Something that you Heather Auger should try! You've never trained a dog, let alone bred a dog but you seem to think your so called dogs are worth millions. There is not a worry where I stand I watched you on the side lines, I have spoken to many individuals that know you and for some reason each and everyone seem to think your sick and need mental care! In your mind everyone attacks you, but by dame you don't attack anyone else! So have you helped that poor girl on kijiji with the German Shepherd yet! I believe she goes by petstoregirl? She seems pretty upset that you a No 1 # Rescue won't help that poor dog! Yup your so worried about everyone else but can't see what your doing to yourself and or other's! If Debbie Meloche is such a scammer, why has she not been charged to date? I am pretty sure your the one that is jeolous of what she has accomplished in the last 35 years. Yes this debate should be face to face not via email, nor dog forums. Face to face! But that's not likely to happen is it Heather? You couldn't face the heat! Now could you???? That's why your called ( CHICKENLITTLE) YOUR ALL TALK BUT NO ACTION! PLEASE BRING YOUR ACTION FACE TO FACE , I WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHO THE TRUE WINNER WOULD BE?? At least I know for sure that Deb would not ever wish to steal your identity but you sure wanted her's didn't you! Answer: Every time one of you posts and takes another step deeper into this bickering you're making yourself look more and more ridiculous. Can you take it elsewhere? Answer: I'm amazed this thread lasted this long, usually this debate gets locked down in a matter of hours. Heheh . . . Dan, sometimes I just let it go to keep all the troublemakers busy amusing themselves ;) Probably should sell tickets :D Answer: Heheh . . . Dan, sometimes I just let it go to keep all the troublemakers busy amusing themselves ;) Probably should sell tickets :D Hee hee! Your right! Sounds like a good plan!!:cool: Answer: Well everyone! Best start selling tickets! Deb Meloche just called Heather Auger out in a three day competion! Go check it out! http:// k9dogs.9k.com It would be very interesting to see if Heather Auger calls her on it! Any how gots to go! Latter all!!! Answer: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Meggie_0000/Dumb.jpg Answer: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Meggie_0000/Dumb.jpg That's giving them way too much credit:D Answer: That's giving them way too much credit:D You think? Ah, but they'll never know, will they. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Meggie_0000/dumbpeople.jpg Btdt, bought the http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Meggie_0000/dumbpeoplet.jpg If you go to the following link and you're at work, don't follow the directions and turn up your volume (unless you're really, really, dumb). http://www.sendthisnow.com/html/people.html Answer: I agree with whatz. The only people I've met who don't give competitions credence (be it Shutz, conformation, field, herding, etc.) have been backyard breeders. Even true working police dogs have competitions. Answer: I agree with whatz. The only people I've met who don't give competitions credence (be it Shutz, conformation, field, herding, etc.) have been backyard breeders. Even true working police dogs have competitions. and another thing on this, MOST PSD's are not ever bred. Occasionally a very fine male will be used as a stud, usually after the dog is retired, and these dogs usually have "sport" titles as well. Occassionally you'll get the smaller departments thinking they can breed some to recoup some costs of having a k-9 program, most of those "breeding programs" die out pretty quickly, as they soon realize its better to leave the breeding to those that are breeders and the get their dogs from them. Its much easier, and much more cost effective in the end, plus they end up with better dogs. Answer: Well put! Canadian Police Service Officer's are NOT ALLOWED TO BREED THIER DOGS! The dogs purchased or donated are to be trained, and used for a purpose! POLICE WORK, LET IT BE NARCOTIC PATROL, DUAL PURPOSE, EXPLOSIVE, CADAVIER, AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON!!!! Our local services imports directly from the Netherlands, all dogs here are retired after 5 years of duty. It's important that the dogs have a life too! Police K-9 Dogs are a hard breed to come by, many have it but most do not! No matter who the breeder may be! Yes it starts with breeding, but the foundation is in proper up bringing, socialization, and knowing what makes that dog want to work! Answer: Well put! Canadian Police Service Officer's are NOT ALLOWED TO BREED THIER DOGS! The dogs purchased or donated are to be trained, and used for a purpose! POLICE WORK, LET IT BE NARCOTIC PATROL, DUAL PURPOSE, EXPLOSIVE, CADAVIER, AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON!!!! Our local services imports directly from the Netherlands, all dogs here are retired after 5 years of duty. It's important that the dogs have a life too! Police K-9 Dogs are a hard breed to come by, many have it but most do not! No matter who the breeder may be! Yes it starts with breeding, but the foundation is in proper up bringing, socialization, and knowing what makes that dog want to work! It is important that all breeder's trainer's and owner's look to improve rather than breed to just breed!!!! No $$$$$ can replace what true love is!!! It's never about the money its about the LOVE! Answer: Oh man, and I thought MY contributions to this thread were a little weird and silly. Answer: Oh man, and I thought MY contributions to this thread were a little weird and silly. Aww, poor Meggie? Don't you just hate one-uppers? :p Answer: Aww, poor Meggie? Don't you just hate one-uppers? :p Yeah, it's just too depressing, I just can't beat that. Don't get me wrong, I mean, I talk to myself all the time. I've even been told I move my lips when I'm typing out a post or chatting on messenger (Omgosh, look! I'm doing it now!). But there's just some lines even I won't force people to cross. Especially that pesky "laughing at" vs "laughing with" line. Answer: Cute! I have seen alot of people speak to themselves! It's not a bad thing ya know! Answer: Those are NOT German Shepherd Dogs but White Shepherds "Snow" personally I prefur to bred to THE STANDARD - thats why we have a standard what this guy is breeding certinally is NOT what I would consider being a German Shepherd Dog - just a mutt blue and liver, come on :yikes: certinally not RARE Answer: so true! :cool: |
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